Yellow Dog Linux WTFs

[Zachstar]

I'm sorry if this has been brought up before. However i'm quite ticked off at this major hit to linux on ps3 movement.

I am not a (PS3,Yellow Dog, Linux, etc..) hater but the sheer sillyness of this situation is really wrong.

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From the FAQ http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/faq/

QUESTION: What level of graphics support is available?

At this point in time, YDL runs in framebuffer mode on the PS3, meaning there is no 2D nor 3D accelleration nor support for OpenGL. The x.org driver is fully functional in its framebuffer mode, offering quality support for a wide variety of hi-def televisions and computer monitors that comply with the PS3 video output signals.

QUESTION: Can I download YDL for the PS3 for free?

As all versions of Yellow Dog Linux are distributed under the GPL, yes, once made available to the public mirrors (http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/resources/downloads.shtml).

It seems that in order to get it when it goes live in a couple of days you have to go through this http://ydl.net/ type deal that looks like it will costs money. (Correct me if I am wrong)

--------

Oh for the public check this out

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/delivery.shtml


Monday, November 27: Download Install & Source ISOs via YDL.net Enhanced.
Monday, December 11: Purchase DVDs from the Terra Soft Store (http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/store/).
The week of December 25: Download Install & Source ISOs via the public mirrors.-------------------

My points...

#1 Terra soft being in the position they are in are the best people to urge sony to open up hooks the GPU. They need to hold Sony to its promise of providing support for Indie developers by opening up parts of the GPU to "Other OS"

#2 WTF is with delaying public mirrors till December 25th? Does this mean if if it appears on a torrent or someone else's sever before the 25th it constitutes piracy? Unbelievable I am not paying for this.

#3 It seems that source code will be included along with this Cell SDK. I STRONGLY urge developers of other OS distros to use this legal open source code to quickly adapt their distros to use the full power power offered to "Other OS" Atleast this is a start and will allow modest software rendering while this situation with sony withholding the GPU gets ironed out.

[Zatoichi]

I'm sorry if this has been brought up before. However i'm quite ticked off at this major hit to linux on ps3 movement.

I am not a (PS3,Yellow Dog, Linux, etc..) hater but the sheer sillyness of this situation is really wrong.

-----------

From the FAQ http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/faq/

QUESTION: What level of graphics support is available?

At this point in time, YDL runs in framebuffer mode on the PS3, meaning there is no 2D nor 3D accelleration nor support for OpenGL. The x.org driver is fully functional in its framebuffer mode, offering quality support for a wide variety of hi-def televisions and computer monitors that comply with the PS3 video output signals.

QUESTION: Can I download YDL for the PS3 for free?

As all versions of Yellow Dog Linux are distributed under the GPL, yes, once made available to the public mirrors (http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/resources/downloads.shtml).

It seems that in order to get it when it goes live in a couple of days you have to go through this http://ydl.net/ type deal that looks like it will costs money. (Correct me if I am wrong)

Oh for the public check this out

http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/delivery.shtml


Monday, November 27: Download Install & Source ISOs via YDL.net Enhanced.
Monday, December 11: Purchase DVDs from the Terra Soft Store (http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/store/).
The week of December 25: Download Install & Source ISOs via the public mirrors.-------------------

My points...

#1 Terra soft being in the position they are in are the best people to urge sony to open up hooks the GPU. They need to hold Sony to its promise of providing support for Indie developers by opening up parts of the GPU to "Other OS"

#2 WTF is with delaying public mirrors till December 25th? Does this mean if if it appears on a torrent or someone else's sever before the 25th it constitutes piracy? Unbelievable I am not paying for this.

#3 It seems that source code will be included along with this Cell SDK. I STRONGLY urge developers of other OS distros to use this legal open source code to quickly adapt their distros to use the full power power offered to "Other OS" Atleast this is a start and will allow modest software rendering while this situation with sony withholding the GPU gets ironed out.
Basic is probably free.

If you don't want YDL just go with Fedora Core 5.

[Zachstar]

Fedora core 5 is NOT optimized or even compiled for PS3 hardware.

PS3 is not designed to run well with unoptimized stuff.

Im looking at some forums and finding more bits of into about PS3 GPU possible openness in the future.

All we can do is hope I guess in the meantime.

[Yagharek]

#2 WTF is with delaying public mirrors till December 25th? Does this mean if if it appears on a torrent or someone else's sever before the 25th it constitutes piracy? Unbelievable I am not paying for this.

you are talking of bittorrent, sharing a linux distro und piracy?

bittorrent was at the first point developed, to spread linux around the world.

so, its no piracy, to use a torrent do download YDL before the 25th.

[Mbbest]

Fedora core 5 is NOT optimized or even compiled for PS3 hardware.

PS3 is not designed to run well with unoptimized stuff.

Im looking at some forums and finding more bits of into about PS3 GPU possible openness in the future.

All we can do is hope I guess in the meantime.

Sony will not open acces to gpu, only if someone kill ps3 security then we might see something..but even then i am not sure it will work, xbox 1 (moded) didnt alow use of gpu..as i can remmember, but we can hope :)

[DarkSurge]

Sony will not open acces to gpu, only if someone kill ps3 security then we might see something..but even then i am not sure it will work, xbox 1 (moded) didnt alow use of gpu..as i can remmember, but we can hope :)
You know this how?
I see no reason for Sony not to surpply the open gl api in the future, just give it some time

[Mbbest]

You know this how?
I see no reason for Sony not to surpply the open gl api in the future, just give it some time

I didnt say there is no chance, maybe they will enable, it would be great for linux games :)

[ita333]

The problem for linux OpenGl is Nvidia not Sony.
Nvidia not develop driver for linux PPC (Cell :p).

Linux PPC comunity have petition to Nvidia for release this driver.

http://www.petitiononline.com/nvppclin/petition.html

(in petition write: PS3 RSX)
sign Petition :):):):)

Ciao

Sorry for my english

[jonabbey]

Come on, guys, if Sony were to unchain RSX for use from 'Other OS', then developers might try to get around the entire economic foundation of the console business, and distribute their games without paying royalties to Sony.

It's not going to happen. It shouldn't happen.

[D0nni3]

the console has been out 6 days........ give it some time

[Lefein]

The problem for linux OpenGl is Nvidia not Sony.
Nvidia not develop driver for linux PPC (Cell :p).

Linux PPC comunity have petition to Nvidia for release this driver.

http://www.petitiononline.com/nvppclin/petition.html

(in petition write: PS3 RSX)
sign Petition :):):):)

Ciao

Sorry for my english

There's the answer folks. Let's get proactive! At the very least, we might get an explanation out of it.

[Zachstar]

Signed the call FTW!

Looking very forward to the workings leading to OpenGL Hardware use.

[cmunsta]

Come on, guys, if Sony were to unchain RSX for use from 'Other OS', then developers might try to get around the entire economic foundation of the console business, and distribute their games without paying royalties to Sony.

It's not going to happen. It shouldn't happen.
Now that is a bit much. First off, Linux runs on PS3, not the otherway around. Which means that any game you developed must be played in Linux not directly on the PS3, this shortens the market enormously. Further, you end up with less RAM and CPU resources as there will be a full fledged operating system running in the background. Even the SPUs are accessed differently because it must be done via Linux's method instead of an official development house's ability to access the hardware directly.

Even in simple framebuffer mode, someone could come up with an OpenGL driver implemented using the SPUs, it would howver just be a software implementation. But even with full RSX access, any game you made would still not be able to match the capabilities of official development houses.

In short, fully open access to the hardware is still no threat to Sony's market. In fact, it becomes the opposite. They get to see what wacky things the community comes up with and can either do some themselves, or hire the folks who did in order to make a PS3 only version (this is effectively what they did with the developers of flOw).

The only chunk of hardware they can't open up really is the Blu-Ray player and that is simply because of the movie houses and their insistance on DRM'd crap (well OK, they'd be rather annoyed if pirate copies of their games showed up on the net too).

From what I've gathered so far, all the Linux versions are running atop a hardware abstraction layer anyway (HyperVision) and so Sony still gets to dictate what hardware gets to be open and which doesn't. They just need to allow access through HyperVision to the RSX. Even if it isn't full HW control, if they could give enough to simulate say a GeForce 6800 or something, that would be extremely beneficial and wouldn't hurt them at all.

[40s]

I knew it, I new they could cripple the **** out of it.

[dathitman42]

do they know they can be sued for selling ydl. its still a distro of linux and distros are supposed to be free. so if they don't watch it they could get in trouble.

[Grym]

No GPU access for guest OS is correct. The console has been out for 6 days, give it a rest already.

These things takes time. I am sure Sony is working on something.

[vaan1137]

So can i download YD5 this monday? Or i need wait until desember?

I found this:

Monday, November 27: Download Install & Source ISOs via YDL.net Enhanced.
Monday, December 11: Purchase DVDs from the Terra Soft Store.
The week of December 25: Download Install & Source ISOs via the public mirrors.

Downloading via YDL.net its for all, or only for vip?

[cmunsta]

So can i download YD5 this monday? Or i need wait until desember?

I found this:

Monday, November 27: Download Install & Source ISOs via YDL.net Enhanced.
Monday, December 11: Purchase DVDs from the Terra Soft Store.
The week of December 25: Download Install & Source ISOs via the public mirrors.

Downloading via YDL.net its for all, or only for vip?
If you have an "Enhanced" account (that is, you paid them for an account) then yes, you can download it on ont 27th. On Dec 15th it'll be available on DVD for purchase through their store, and finally, available for free to anyone for download through their mirrors on Dec 25.

[Grym]

Those with the "Enhanced" account can let others dl their copy legally though. GPL is a sweet thing.

[vaan1137]

Thanks, wait for public torrent on 28th nov :)

[cmunsta]

Those with the "Enhanced" account can let others dl their copy legally though. GPL is a sweet thing.
True, but then you are stopping them from recouping some of the development costs of putting out their Linux distro in the first place. It's really not much to ask that you wait until Dec 25 to get a free copy after all.

[duffjp]

do they know they can be sued for selling ydl. its still a distro of linux and distros are supposed to be free. so if they don't watch it they could get in trouble.

They aren't charging you for Linux. They are charginig you for the DVD's (physical item and effort to burn them), any printed material and the install support. You might want to read what the 'purchaseable' version includes before making statements like that.

[santana]

do they know they can be sued for selling ydl. its still a distro of linux and distros are supposed to be free. so if they don't watch it they could get in trouble.

Contrary to popular beleif, you CAN sell GPLed code (including Linux), however, you must make sure to provide your buyer(s) with source code. Usually nobody bothers with selling Linux, but people do sell services, books, support, enchanced accounts, things like that. YDL guys have to eat too :)

This is actually a quite decent offer from YDL.

[Aleman]

Well I'm sure glad I rushed out and bought a PS3 early :(

[mavsman4457]

Well I'm sure glad I rushed out and bought a PS3 early :(

Hahaha I kind of know what you mean. One of the main reasons that I bought PS3 was for the incredible things that YDL would do for it. Now that mostly that will be taken away I am upset. If Sony doesn't find a way to fix this then I will be angry. I want to play Halo 2 on my PS3, hahaha. Actually I just want to play Mario Party and Mario Kart.

[santana]

Hahaha I kind of know what you mean. One of the main reasons that I bought PS3 was for the incredible things that YDL would do for it. Now that mostly that will be taken away I am upset. If Sony doesn't find a way to fix this then I will be angry. I want to play Halo 2 on my PS3, hahaha. Actually I just want to play Mario Party and Mario Kart.

Well, some things could actually be playable :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsQOr-vNDsg&NR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7EGJpPi1IY

[Aleman]

Well I'm sure someone will buy it and make a torrent so all is not lost. Actually I may just pay for it to support Terrasoft.

[u221e]

#1 Terra soft being in the position they are in are the best people to urge sony to open up hooks the GPU. They need to hold Sony to its promise of providing support for Indie developers by opening up parts of the GPU to "Other OS"

You completely miss the point about why they don't allow GPU access in the first place.

[Grym]

yay snes emulator running. :)

here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7EGJpPi1IY

[Aleman]

Yea I don't think we'll ever get official GPU access. That would just completely open the door for pirating of all sorts of stuff. I hope it gets hacked, but then again, I don't know how hypervisors work.

[u221e]

Yea I don't think we'll ever get official GPU access. That would just completely open the door for pirating of all sorts of stuff. I hope it gets hacked, but then again, I don't know how hypervisors work.

I probably won't be hacked, but maybe Sony would allow the GPU to be opened in a very limited manner. My idea is just to allow textured polygons, lighting, anti-aliasing and forget about all the other GPU features.

[santana]

I probably won't be hacked, but maybe Sony would allow the GPU to be opened in a very limited manner. My idea is just to allow textured polygons, lighting, anti-aliasing and forget about all the other GPU features.

Hacking is not an option. I hope Sony will allow some kind of access. Although I think that even full access wouldn't hurt them much. Or at all.

[mavsman4457]

Listen up. It happened for PSP and it's going to happen for PS3. Whether it's through hackers or through Sony themselves, we will get our way. Patience is the key, and never upgrade your firmware, trust me, that's all I can say.

[Aleman]

Listen up. It happened for PSP and it's going to happen for PS3. Whether it's through hackers or through Sony themselves, we will get our way. Patience is the key, and never upgrade your firmware, trust me, that's all I can say.

Emulators and homebrew aren't worth shutting myself out of PNP access :/

[bucko]

Give it time, at least wait until PS3 is released in Europe. Then world hackers will be at your dispense.

[Jugix]

#3 It seems that source code will be included along with this Cell SDK. I STRONGLY urge developers of other OS distros to use this legal open source code to quickly adapt their distros to use the full power power offered to "Other OS" Atleast this is a start and will allow modest software rendering while this situation with sony withholding the GPU gets ironed out.

All of those kernel patches are already available for download across the net. Just install PPC version of Fedora Core 5 with required kernel patches and you are a go. Next big step would be to recode all linux PPC softare from ground up to support Cell BE with SPEs.